Wednesday, March 3, 2010

GREAT Interview on New England Cable News

[Original post date: 03/03/10  06:00pm PST by Deep Sounding] 
[Minor updates (in blue text): 03/04/10  07:44am PST by Deep Sounding]
Credit again goes to Taylor over at the San Mateo Daily Journal for drawing our attention to this news item:

New England Cable News Television did a segment on william ayres tonight. (March 3rd, 2010):

The segment was a great interview with Mitchell Garabedian (a lawyer for a bunch of the priest molestation cases) discussing several aspects of the "mechanics" of these kinds of cases: what prods victims to come forward after many years, why they should come forward, and of particular interest, they talk about one of ayres' statements during the trial. ayres made a statement that exams which include genital exams "develop a kind of trust" between psychiatrist and child. Garabedian mentions that this is a HUGE red flag, and both Garabedian and the interviewer seem surprised to hear that ayres made that comment in court.

Here are some MORE statements that ayres made during the trial along that line:

"And, so, I did a physical, and the kid told me about what was wrong with him [...] and I realized at that time that that was useful, not only to know about what the physical problems were but, also, it had to do with the relationship with the child."

About his sex ed program "A Time of Your Life:" Question: Did it change your attitude about talking to children about sex and development openly and honestly? ayres: "I think it increased it. I don't know that it changed it. [...] I was sort of drawn into it, and then I learned and I began to realize..."

Question about whether ayres advocates always giving physical examinations: "No, I don't. It might be salvatory. It might be good, but no, I don't"

"I think physical exams are physical exams, but I think that they develop a kind of trust. And they start talking about something as uninteresting [...] or things that are important. And I sometimes now get to that stage without the physical part, where they're -- They feel accepted.

"And then there are people who are very withdrawn and who find it very difficult to relate, and many of them will respond if you go very slowly. And if you talk to them all the time so they hear your choice, (I think VOICE was actually the word here) it's all right to do physicals. And many of them will relax if you start asking them questions which is always a good sign."

"And the same thing in terms of during the physical. And that they become more comfortable. And as they become comfortable then it's -- I am not saying it's a positive experience to go through a physical, but it certainly is seen as professional."

"And if you do physicals, children often tell you things while you are --- I'll give you a quick example."

"A psychiatrist gives a physical exam which gives you all the information about the physical exam, but it also establishes a relationship with the patient, that they respect you, and that they feel comfortable with you and it's okay [...] I don't think I'm -- I don't think I'm answering your question adequately."

Question: Do you have your office set up for physical examinations? ayres: "Well, I had an office which was set up, that if you closed the doors on one wall, it would be just a brown wall of wood, and the mother and father could come up and sit down, and I'd get a history from them. And then when the child would come in, I would open the doors, which would fold so that you could see a play area, at the end of which is a sink. And then there would be models, [...] Although girls never made much models, but there were also games, and there are cards, and all sorts of things that they might be drawn to. [...] So it was set up, as far as I was concerned, as a place where I could do a physical, [...] I would wash my hands before so that way I wouldn't have to turn my back on the patient. And I liked to keep as much eye contact as possible.

Question did you communicate the results (of the physical) to anyone? ayres: "Well, I talked to -- I talked to the patient all the time. [...] But the truth is that if you just talk in an ordinary voice, not too loud, not too soft, and you just sort of provide a -- And what I was taught by Al Songden was [...] Now I have lost your question.

"There are some children who are very skittish, and I never want to do any physical where the child is going to feel anxious or feel like you were enforcing or somehow using the power of the adult, you know."

"There are so many, many things that children complain about and relate often physically. And I would make the connection for them so that that's something that I would like to do, a physical."

[...] "There are some children who are very uncommunicative. [...] you can look at the child when you're standing four or five feet away and you say, "I think it would be helpful if we did a physical," and we did a physical. and you watch the child's face and -- but some of them, there are some that have worked very hard to keep from letting their feelings be translated." - [NOTE: this isn't exactly what he said here. I was watching him very carefully at this point in his testimony, and immediately wrote down what he said. What he said was: "I think it would be helpful if we did a physical." Then he smiled fondly and gave a small chuckle and said: "WE did a physical" and he clearly emphasized the word "we."]

On a "test" that was done to check the volume of the bladder (I know... don't even ask...): "I was expecting that he had followed the rules, [...] and, so I thought he'd be loaded with water and, therefore, I could do the exam. And it was -- I remember that because -- and, by the way, I wasn't annoyed with him. This is just like as when you're doing physical things, and so -- or with patients." anyhow you get the picture.

I stopped about half way through the transcript of his testimony. (All of which I was present for by the way... these statements don't describe the glee in his facial expressions when discussing giving exams.) In fact, in looking at what's above, I see that I missed a few of them while I was skimming through the transcript last night. I wrote about a bunch of them immediately after his testimony, so you can go read them here. I also counted 10 other little paragraphs along the way that were often more odd than the stuff above, but they didn't relate as directly to the "developing a relationship through the physical exam" theme. Anyhow. That should leave enough of a rancid taste in your mouth that you can go vomit now. (Unless of course you're one of my pedophile readers, in which case... well, we'll get you eventually.)

And just in case you're new to this case, while all of the above discussion relates to "physical and genital exams" I must point out without being too graphic that these "physical exams" were NOTHING like I've received since, and I've had checks for testicular cancer and prostate exams. To be more blunt if you're still not following: ayres was NOT doing physical exams.

ALSO: There are more news items lately about OTHER cases going on but which are drawing parallels to the ayres case, you can read them for yourself:

The New York Daily News

OK. Well that's all for today. I've pretty much had my fill.

There are links to more quotes from ayres' testimony on the
In ayres' Own Words link on the main page.


  1. If you want to see how tenacious Mitch Garabedian was in the pedophile priests cases, I recommend the book called "Our Fathers" by David France.

    Mitch fought like hell for the hundreds of victims of the notorious pedophile priest Father John Geoghan(who was later murdered in prison.) He was also the first lawyer to depose Boston's Cardinal Law, who was found to have covered up abuse complaints about priests. Law was forced to resign because of the scandal. Mitch is not afraid of anyone.

    He really cares about victims. If there are Boston victims of Ayres out there, I would recommend that they call Mitch at 617-523-6250.

    Incidentally, actor Ted Danson portrayed Garabedian in the TV movie"Our Fathers."

  2. One correction. The lawyer Mitch Garabedian gave the wrong years when Ayres was in Boston.

    Ayres was in Boston from 1959-1963. Not 1969-73, as he said.